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ICE ECC: Backward Compatibility problem?

 
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Glyph



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: ICE ECC: Backward Compatibility problem? Reply with quote

This is a very minor issue that i noticed with one of my ECC sets.

I encoded 2.9GB of data in 13 files with 1.4 GB of ECC data in 6 files using the old ICE ECC v1.1

After upgrading to ICE ECC v1.2 I tried to restore 5 of the deleted files which totalled 1.1 GB of lost data. The program indicated that recovery was possible so i set it to recover. After running to about 25% the program then gave the error "Propably HDD or RAM failure during recovering. Block is not recoverable - X" on a hundred of the blocks. (I used a setting of 1024 blocks for this one)

After allowing the program to run to completion i checked the files again, the filenames had been restored but there was no data, they all were 0 bytes.

I tried turning off the "multithreading" capability but the same thing occured.

I tried both restoring to the same directory and restoring to another directory but the same results occured. When i restored to another directory, all the files i originally had were copied, but the deleted files came out to 0 bytes and still gave the same hardware failure error.

Believing i actually had a hardware failure, i used another computer to attempt the same process. This other computer also gave the same error.

I then tried re-encoding the original files with ICE ECC v1.2 using similar settings and i deleted the same files again and tried a restore, this time it worked and regenerated all files perfectly.

Just so ya know: The computers i used were a Pentium 3.06 with hypthreading and 448 Megs of ram with 20 GB freespace on the hard drive and the second computer was a Dual Athlon MP 2500+ with 1GB of ram and 50 GB of available hard drive space.

I have a lot of files encoded on the original v1.1 and v1.0 format on hundreds of DVDs. Should I take them all out and convert now to v1.2 while i still can?

I'm hoping this small backward compatibility problem can be fixed so i can keep the old archives. It would be a pain to have to buy hundreds more DVDs and re-encode them all.

Thanks for the help by the way!

This is still simply the best ECC program out there!
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ICE Graphics
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Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 430

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: ICE ECC: Backward Compatibility problem? Reply with quote

Glyph wrote:
This is a very minor issue that i noticed with one of my ECC sets.

I encoded 2.9GB of data in 13 files with 1.4 GB of ECC data in 6 files using the old ICE ECC v1.1

After upgrading to ICE ECC v1.2 I tried to restore 5 of the deleted files which totalled 1.1 GB of lost data. The program indicated that recovery was possible so i set it to recover. After running to about 25% the program then gave the error "Propably HDD or RAM failure during recovering. Block is not recoverable - X" on a hundred of the blocks. (I used a setting of 1024 blocks for this one)

This is error appear when recovered block CRC is not identical with stored CRC of this is block. Reed-Solomomon code recovering is fail. Why it can happened. Something is wrong was during creating ECC codes. As you know ICE ECC use CPU and RAM in heavy mode. If something is fail during creation ECC codes, is not possible to catch this is situation.

I know, what it's not good. But solution of this is problem is too expensive. Simple CRC check can not help. Need to check all ECC codes. Required time for this is operation almost equal ECC creation time.


Glyph wrote:
After allowing the program to run to completion i checked the files again, the filenames had been restored but there was no data, they all were 0 bytes.

ICE ECC do not write to file block if see what CRC of this is block is not valid.


Glyph wrote:
I tried turning off the "multithreading" capability but the same thing occured.

Believing i actually had a hardware failure, i used another computer to attempt the same process. This other computer also gave the same error.

Error have occured during creation ECC file. If ECC file was created with error, using another computer can not help.


Glyph wrote:
I then tried re-encoding the original files with ICE ECC v1.2 using similar settings and i deleted the same files again and tried a restore, this time it worked and regenerated all files perfectly.

There is not difference between files created ICE ECC v1.1 and v1.2.


Glyph wrote:
I have a lot of files encoded on the original v1.1 and v1.0 format on hundreds of DVDs. Should I take them all out and convert now to v1.2 while i still can?

I think need to make full integrity check of ECC codes. I mean not CRC check, i mean real checking recovery possibility codes stored in .ecc files. New version v1.3 will do it.


Glyph wrote:
I'm hoping this small backward compatibility problem can be fixed so i can keep the old archives. It would be a pain to have to buy hundreds more DVDs and re-encode them all.

No, it not backward compatibility problem. It's real hardware failure.
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Glyph



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok So I don't have to reencode my files, i just need to wait for v1.3 to fix the obscure errors.


And should i stop using the computer i did the encoding on and use another one?

Thanks in advance
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ICE Graphics
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Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 430

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glyph wrote:
Ok So I don't have to reencode my files, i just need to wait for v1.3 to fix the obscure errors.

If you want to be absolutely sure, need after creating .ecc files make full test for this is .ecc files.

Glyph wrote:
And should i stop using the computer i did the encoding on and use another one?

I think, need at least to make serious tests of RAM. Like memtest86.
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Glyph



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks alot, i'll do those things. Smile

And take your time implementing the error correction feature. The program is great as is. Very Happy
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ICE Graphics
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Joined: 31 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Version 1.3 released. So, now you can check ECC files for corruption.

Interesting to know, what Test mode will show about corrupted file.
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Glyph



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome, i've tried it and it seems to work.

Great piece of software.
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ICE Graphics
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glyph wrote:
Awesome, i've tried it and it seems to work.

Did you found some corrupted blocks inside .ecc fail witch fail ? How much blocks ?
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Glyph



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the program didn't let me test the ECC files. The problem was that the data files themselves failed the CRC check and gave me the error: "Test failed: You can not test ECC files if data files damaged or missed. Corrupted Block - 2".

Probably the data in memory got corrupted during the formation of ECC files.
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ICE Graphics
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glyph wrote:
Actually, the program didn't let me test the ECC files. The problem was that the data files themselves failed the CRC check and gave me the error: "Test failed: You can not test ECC files if data files damaged or missed. Corrupted Block - 2".

Probably the data in memory got corrupted during the formation of ECC files.

So, your problem is not RAM failure. Your problem is HDD failure.
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Glyph



Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm not certain about that. The files when compared to another backup copy are still exact. If it was a HDD failure it was only temporary.
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ICE Graphics
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Joined: 31 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glyph wrote:
i'm not certain about that. The files when compared to another backup copy are still exact. If it was a HDD failure it was only temporary.

I mean what during creating ECC files some files were read with error. HDD usually do not inform about CRC error or Windows prefer ignore this is information.
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stand



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:50 am    Post subject: Re: ICE ECC: Backward Compatibility problem? Reply with quote

ICE Graphics wrote:
Something is wrong was during creating ECC codes. As you know ICE ECC use CPU and RAM in heavy mode.


feature suggestion:

- CPU throttle
-- not the same as setting thread priority

- RAM limiting
-- to avoid using swap


Cool
_________________
doing it right
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ICE Graphics
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Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 430

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: ICE ECC: Backward Compatibility problem? Reply with quote

stand wrote:
feature suggestion:

- CPU throttle

Just disable Multi-Thread mode. It's look like to some kind of CPU throttle

stand wrote:
-- not the same as setting thread priority

Thread priority change only responsiveness, but not real CPU usage. Thread with CPU priority IDLE can use 100% CPU Utilization.

stand wrote:
- RAM limiting

Agree

stand wrote:
-- to avoid using swap

I am not sure what it's possible. Moreover, RAM limiting can prevent using swap.
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